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[AUDIO PODCAST] Is the Law of Attraction Science or Spirituality?

What is the law of attraction and is science replacing spirituality?

Have you heard of the Law of Attraction?

Maybe you tried to think positive or put together a vision board and wondered does this really work? In this episode, we explain the science behind what some people call the spiritual or universal laws and how you can apply them in your life. 53: Is the Law of Attraction – Science or Spirituality? Debi tells her story about getting the DVD, “The Secret” and how she realized she already knew this secret. Now fifteen years later everyone jumped on the law of attraction bandwagon and there are many different people teaching this content. Rob talks about the language of the law of attraction and how it comes from the New Thought movement in the early 1900’s. We discuss whether these spiritual ideas are outdated because now we understand science. We have a natural curiosity to learn about ourselves and we still have to answer the big questions including spiritual needs.

If you love to hear about science (neuroscience and quantum physics) and how spirituality fit together, you will fully enjoy this episode. Understand what is spirituality? Spirituality is not a belief, that is religion. We explain the law of karma and other spiritual ideas.

If you want to explore more, check out our new POWER OF THE GITA program that starts this month!


Debi: Episode number 53, Debi and Dr. Rob Show. This show is about that Law of Attraction that everyone talks about. Is it science or spirituality or a mixture of both? We’re going to clear the air and give you some insight on how to use those spiritual laws in a very powerful way to create the life you really want, so stay tuned. This is the Debi and Dr. Rob Show. You are in the right place if you are tired of the basic self-help and you’re ready for a higher level of teaching in neuroscience, Jungian psychology and Eastern wisdom. We offer world-class personal development and coach training for evolving women entrepreneurs to help you go to the next level of growth in success, relationships, and living your purpose, so let’s get started. Dr. Rob, episode number 53. They say it couldn’t be done.

Dr. Rob: A long time coming and it’s finally here. We’re going to talk about the Law of Attraction.
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Debi: Yes, a lot of people have asked us that, but before we begin today’s show, I wanted to just mention that if you find our podcast and the content interesting, intriguing, mind-expanding, and you think, “I would really like to learn this at a deeper level. I’d like to train in this process so that I can help others,” either add to your own coaching business or become a coach, we have good news. We have just a few spots left for our fall class for the certification of Jungian spiritual life coaches and the application deadline is October 6th. If you do not apply by October 6th, you’re going to have to wait until next year for our next class.

This is really important. If you have been thinking about doing this program and been putting it off and saying, “I’m going to wait until next year, I’m going to wait until next year,” this is the very last class that we will have as much personal coaching with Rob, because our business is expanding, because our time is limited, we are not going to as many private coaching sessions with Rob in our next class, so if you want to have the full experience of private mentorship with Rob, this is it. Of course, it’s going to be available, but it’ll be almost double what we’re charging this year. Believe me, if you can find a way, make it happen, because this is a really great deal and the last time you’ll get to have that deep connection with Rob all through the program at the price point that we have.

Dr. Rob: Yes. If you’re interested at all, sign up. At least get on a call with us and ask us about the possibility of becoming a coach.

Debi: Yes, just get a free consultation with me. All you need to do is fill out the form. You can go to jungianlifecoach.com and it’ll take you to our page about the coaching program and it starts in– It started already, but you can jump in now. The live event is in October, we have another one in March. You can jump in on this class before it gets along too far and be a part of this amazing journey. Some of our coaches already that have started have seen, even just joining the program, some amazing changes in their life already and they’re really excited for the journey and you’re going to be in the company of a great mind.

Dr. Rob: Yes, that’s an added bonus is that you get to be part of this incredible group.

Debi: If you’re enjoying this deep conversation we have in our podcast and want to be more involved and teach this to other people, help other people live bigger lives, apply today at jugianlifecoach.com. Okay, Rob, let’s get down to business, the Law of Attraction. I remember when a friend of mine, she was a client actually, she said, “Have you seen the movie The Secret?” I had done hypnotherapy and I learned this stuff a long time ago and I was like, “The Secret, oh my God, [chuckles] I’m missing out on something that I don’t know,” and I couldn’t wait. Back then you couldn’t see it online, so I had to send for the DVD and I was all excited when I got it, I couldn’t wait to put in my DVD player, that’s how long ago that movie came out.

I put it in and then they were talking about this secret, they were talking about this secret, and then all of a sudden they go, “The secret is the Law of Attraction,” and my whole body just went, “I know this already. [chuckles] This isn’t a secret.” But it’s so amazing after just understanding, that movie actually set off so many careers in self-help, personal development. The internet was just starting to become popular, so everyone jumped on the bandwagon of the Law of Attraction, there was a lot of attraction workshops and vision board workshops and everyone’s talking about visualization. One of my clients was so cute, he said, “Debi, all this stuff we’ve been working on the past year, now everyone’s going to find out about it. [chuckles] Everyone’s going to know that your thoughts [unintelligible 00:05:20] your life.” He was so worried and I’m like, “There’s plenty of abundance, don’t worry.”

Dr. Rob: That was the whole idea.

Debi: I know, but it was so funny. I was like, “The secret’s out now.”

Dr. Rob: Yes. A lot of people don’t know that that whole language of the Law of Attraction comes from a movement that, I guess, started in the early 1900 and it’s called New Thought. The New Thought schools and philosophers at that time in America were very much influenced by the Eastern gurus that were coming over at that time. There was a few. Vivekananda was coming over and then later Yogananda.

Debi: Also, Think and Grow Rich came out like in the 1920s, and Wallace Wattles wrote The Science of Getting Rich back then. There were a lot of those books that came out and teachers that started talking about potential and your mind.

Dr. Rob: Yes, an interesting history that really hasn’t been written about that much or hasn’t been popularized, but the way it reached the current age was through those ideas of New Thought and they were infused with the religious spirituality ideas, of course.

Debi: Yes, a lot of them are very Christian-based if you think about it. They quote Jesus and they quote Bible verses, so a lot of the Christian model was taken into account there.

Dr. Rob: Yes. I think in our current age, one of the big questions is do we need spirituality given that we have neuroscience now and physics and all this incredible scientific advances. Now we’re getting into artificial intelligence and robots are about to explode onto the scene, so do we need the Law of Attraction and other spiritual ideas to–

Debi: Are they outdated now because we have science?

Dr. Rob: Yes. Us as Jungians or people that study Jung, let’s say students of Jung– Jung’s idea, and he was working around the same time really, because he started in the early 1900s as well, his main idea was that it doesn’t matter how advanced we get technologically, our nature, our curiosity about life, about ourselves, those big questions that we have, they’re not going to go away just because we have a technology and we have computers and we have the Google and artificial intelligence. We still have to answer those big questions for ourselves. He says, “Your spiritual needs are not going to go away just because you have technology and science.” Because, first of all, science is not meant to answer those big questions. Science is really a way of looking at what are my senses telling me and how can I verify if that’s true and if other people are seeing the same thing as I am.

Debi: A lot of psychology is based on science, where it’s behaviorism and testing and research-

Dr. Rob: Yes.

Debi: -and what the evidence, like you said, of the senses, of witnesses, of experience tell us.

Dr. Rob: Yes.

Debi: It’s very material. It’s very physical. It’s very external.

Dr. Rob: Yes, it’s upfront on those things. It’s as we’re assuming there is a physical reality, first of all, so it’s making a big assumption and then it’s following through on that. It’s called empiricism. Empiricism simply means, “What can I see, what can I touch, what can I weigh and measure, and I’m going by that.” So, it wasn’t meant to replace spirituality.

Debi: Because spirituality is all about the unseen.

Dr. Rob: Exactly, and even the people that invented science, like Newton, most of the writings were about alchemy and very mystical things.

Debi: But, then, they took only the little piece.

Dr. Rob: Yes. I think there’s errors on both sides. The people that say, “Oh, because we have science now, we have a way of verifying things. You don’t need the–”

Debi: Religion is dead, especially.

Dr. Rob: Yes, or spirituality is superstition and old school. That’s wrong because it wasn’t meant to replace the deeper need and those bigger questions that we have. To replace it with scientific fact, man, you’re giving up the richness of being alive–

Debi: And being human, that’s– There’s things that you can’t put in words too.

Dr. Rob: Yes.

Debi: These mystical experiences that we can have that are way beyond just measurements of tools.

Dr. Rob: Yes. Then, you hear people like Dawkins and the selfish gene guy, putting down the religious people because they think, “Oh, they’re being silly or childish or superstitious.” But it’s really that they’re setting up a straw bad guy and saying, “The fundamentalists are the ones that represent religion and spirituality, and us scientists are so enlightened.”

Debi: We’ve based everything on facts and, like you said, empirical evidence.

Dr. Rob: Yes, but that’s a false argument because that’s not spirituality, that’s just a cultural manifestation, people that believe or follow certain rituals. Now, let me just finish this thought. On the other side, people that think, “Science sucks, technology sucks, let’s get back to nature and spirituality,” there is something to that, in that we need to take care of nature and the planet. It’s our home and we can’t live without it, but you can’t turn back science, you can’t turn back what we already know about technology and what we’ve created. You have to come to terms with it, you have to learn how to use it in a creative way. Both ends of the spectrum, I think, are off.

Debi: Extremist.

Dr. Rob: Yes.

Debi: Well, what I wanted to say was that I know there’s a lot- when we used to do a lot of work with love, there was a lot out there about hormones and about your brain and it triggers your brain. Helen Fisher did a lot of research on what your brain does when it’s in love, and attachment theory and all those things. Those are great, but it takes the romantic version of what love is about and the romantic version of what spirituality can be about. What really gives our life richness and meaning that’s far beyond just evidence is a beautiful thing, so what we want to do is bridge both the spirituality and science together. How do we do that? Another thing I’d like to talk about is, what is spirituality? Think about it. Is it a religion? Is it organized religion? There’s people that say, “I’m spiritual, but not religious.” [chuckles] What does that mean?

Dr. Rob: Right. It’s unfortunate that, let’s say, spirituality has become synonymous with belief. People say, “Do you believe this?” According to your beliefs, you’re categorized as Buddhist or Christian or Muslim or something. Now, the belief thing, really it’s more of a cultural expression. It means you bought into a certain idea of how the universe works and what happens to you after you die and those things. Those beliefs really go back to your culture, your experiences, what made sense to you as you were growing up and what you bought into and why you rejected, all those things. That’s not really what we mean by spirituality. Belief is not spirituality. Belief is simply part of your ego makeup that has helped you define yourself.

Debi: Personal conditioning. Basically, we’re conditioned to believe things are a certain way. We’re conditioned to believe and fear God or praise God or reject God, whatever we are– That’s our belief and that actually comes from, like you said, our social conditioning. Then, this idea of the law, like there’s spiritual laws or the laws of karma, for example. They come from, again, what is your perception? You had mentioned when we were talking earlier today about karma, a lot of people think it’s good and bad. Good karma and bad karma. This social system has turned into their own understanding, but karma is not about good and bad, it’s just cause and effect.

Dr. Rob: Just cause and effect.

Debi: Just, only, just the mind.

Dr. Rob: Really, karma is simply the sum total of your actions and thoughts and ideas that you’ve expressed in your lifetime and how that has conditioned you into what you are today.

Debi: Created like an ego that carries all that conditioning.

Dr. Rob: Absolutely. The sum total of who you are right now is your karma, basically. That’s what is meant by karma. The good and bad, I think, was part of– In the West, we were used to thinking of sin and redemption, that you’re going to get punished for your sins and you need to redeem yourself somehow by good works. It’s that idea superimposed on this more ancient idea of karma.

Debi: When we think about the Law of Attraction and we think about this conversation we’re having about religion, actually this New Thought became a religion. Then, what happened is that people didn’t tease out their own person experience with their own Christianity or their own religion that they have, and they were trying to use this other– Basically, it’s taking two religions and putting them together and trying to make a sense of it. I think there’s a lot of people that got lost in it. Then it becomes, like you said, a belief system, and it’s not really the truth.

Dr. Rob: Right. You have said also earlier that people have been using or trying to use these spiritual principles to obtain something.

Debi: Yes. It’s like, “Get the car.” That’s what was the biggest criticism about the secret is that people said, “Oh, that’s all good and fine, but it’s all about getting fancy cars and jewelry and finding a person, and very little about peace of mind.” I remember when I got caught up in it. I started my first hypnotherapy practice. I needed to make money. I was taking those spiritual laws and applying them like, “Oh, I got to visualize and manifest.” I had my money angel and using that to get material things, but then what happened is that it was never enough.

No matter how much money you make or how much success you get, it’s never enough because you’re really just creating from a materialistic place. When the money comes in, then I’ll feel good, but it’s basically using spirituality, it sounds like blasphemy. You’re using the spiritual wisdom to create material things and it’s not the point that was initially created by the Buddhists and the yogis. It’s not about acquiring material well.

Now, of course, there’s the other side, which is the spiritual people that say, “Oh, reject wealth and reject things in the world. You shouldn’t worry about love. You should just be spiritual.” Both sides, again, the extreme of science and spirituality, you also want to make sure there’s a balance there too. I think it’s going deeper in understanding, number one, who’s the one that’s creating and using these principles, and what are the principles that we should be using, and how should we look at the world. [chuckles] Just a couple of quick questions.

Dr. Rob: Recently, we were doing an interview with somebody. It was so funny because they were saying, “I’m glad you guys didn’t talk about abundance.” The way a lot of people are talking about abundance now that, “Okay, just write a $1 million check and put it in your wallet. That’s going to give you abundance somehow.” We’ve certainly grown beyond that. What has helped us understand this is what we call Jungian spiritual psychology. What is Jungian spiritual psychology? It is essentially looking at this need to understand ourselves and our deeper selves beyond the ego, beyond the persona, and to answer some of these questions that are naturally in us.

You talk to a kid and they have the right questions is, “What am I doing here? Who am I? Why is the sky blue?” Like, “What is the nature of myself and what is the nature of the world?” That’s essentially what they’re asking. That’s philosophy. Jung had this idea that if you can’t get rid of those big questions and you shouldn’t try to because it fulfills our roles as human beings, we need to understand them, not reject anything that we can’t see or measure or weigh, like the physical scientist says, but consider that as human beings, there’s more to us than our bodies and more to us than just our individual experience.

Debi: I was thinking too that if you take the Law of Attraction and say, “I’m going to create wealth,” and then you actually create wealth because it works– There’s a law, If you think positive, you’ll get stuff [chuckles] usually. It will show up for you, but you’re bringing with it all the fears around not having it. If you’re an ego, what will happen is the things you do create with this law of attraction will end up inflating your ego. We’ve seen this happen with a lot of people that have had real great success teaching the Law of Attraction, and they crashed, because they believed they were the creator, like their ego was the creator and not the divine. Basically, they ended up having the feeling they had superpowers, but their ego was taking credit for it. They hadn’t done the work understanding who they really are on a deep level and they just rushed ahead.

I always caution people that when you’re using those spiritual laws, you have to understand that you’re not the ego, and that is really the first step, or you’re going to get caught in a trap of chasing things, never feeling satisfied. If you do attract “what you want,” you’re not going to be satisfied. They’re going to be an emptiness and a feeling of, “It’s not enough and I need more.”

Dr. Rob: Well, Socrates said there’re two tragedies in life. One is that you don’t get your heart’s desire. Two is that you do get your heart’s desires. That’s what he meant is that if you do get them, but you’re still caught up in the ego. You’re not going to be satisfied and you’re going to think, “Oh, I thought these things were meant to make me happy. I got them, I have them all and I’m still not happy.” They painted themselves into a corner. The spiritual psychology is really about understanding that deeper process in us, understanding that we’re not the ego and understanding how do we do it? How do we get beyond the ego?

Debi: If we’re not the ego, who are we? Instead of just believing, like you said, in religion where you just read a book, the Bible or some other spiritual book or Think And Grow Rich, and you say, “Hey, I believe this because this person said this or this book says this.” Then you’re really back in religion, but what you want to do is have a direct experience of the truth of what is beyond your ego. That’s really the key. So, one of the ways that the ego operates is survival. Anytime you’re in fear or anytime you need something externally to feel comfortable, to feel fulfilled, to feel happy, you are basically making something outside of you more powerful than you. I call it putting it up on the pedestal.

If you try to use these laws or your spiritual work to get those things, you’re going to be very unhappy. Maybe short-term you’ll feel good, but eventually, if you don’t do the inner examination and free yourself of that attachment, that ego survival attachment, you are going to feel dissatisfied. Jim Carrey famously said, “I wish everyone would be wildly successful, famous, have model wives, drive fancy cars, have mansions, and then realize that that’s not really what makes you happy.” I’m paraphrasing him.

Dr. Rob: Yes. The spiritual psychology, then, is a way to really understand the Law of Attraction, the spiritual laws, even the teachings of the religions in the deeper sense, but understanding them from that deeper part of our psyche, not from the ego. Because it’s like I tell a lot of people, “Yes, you know all those beautiful things that you read about on Facebook and all those spiritual teachers that speak today and teach abundance and possibility. Those things are true, but you have to do your internal work first, then those principles apply.” If they don’t, you’re still on the surface, you’re still creating ego and you’re just trying to add spirituality to the ego piece, to the persona, to the mask we wear.

Debi: You see sometimes people do that. They dress differently and they have to feel like they are super spiritual and they have to talk spiritual and they have this spiritual persona and they have to speak in a quiet voice and forgive everyone and be kind. What happens is that the shadow is building up. If you build your ego on this spiritual ideal, and you’re really doing it from an ego perspective, the opposite goes in the shadow. All the anger, all the desire to do something destructive, all the power a lot of times gets thrown into the shadow and then you’re really just trying to– You’ll get upset and triggered with people, but then you feel like you can’t express your anger because you’re a spiritual person, so you see this showing up.

I remember when I first started doing spiritual work, I felt like there was a judgment of how spiritual people should be. They have to be walking on water and not make mistakes and not hurt people. We’re human and we’re messy with our own emotions and we’re messy with other people’s emotions. You just accept that. Then it’s also accepting that about ourselves is really where we start to begin to move beyond the ego. One of the things that I love about the spiritual psychology and the Jungian model is that we go to the deeper level.

We’re not just talking about concepts of spirituality, we’re actually going and having a direct experience of our spiritual nature. For me, visualization is great, but you still feel like you’re making things up, but in the dream work, it really is a profound experienced to know that there’s a deeper part of myself that is saying, “I’m helping you, Deb. I’m on your side. This is what’s happening.” Reflecting back, it’s like this wiser creative force that’s helping me live my life. We all believe in this higher power, but we don’t realize that we have access to it, direct access to our wisdom.

That’s where I feel that with Jungian work you get to go to that deeper level. It’s not just a concept, an intellectual concept of, “Oh, I have a higher self, that’s not my true self.” What most people call their true self is really a perfect ego one that they want to have, but our true self is all the messiness, it’s all the beauty and all the things we don’t like about ourselves and then all the things that we haven’t discovered about ourselves yet. That’s our true self.

Dr. Rob: Yes. Some people have asked, “Well, why should I do this? I mean, if I’m doing okay or appear to be doing okay, I’ve survived, I’ve made a good life for myself so far. Why do I need to do this deeper work?” It’s really that there’s more to us than just what’s on the surface and building an external appearance of things. Now, we need those things. We’re not saying get rid of those things or push away success and abundance and all that. We need those things to do our work in the world. Really, what the spiritual psychology does, it balances out that life that we live externally with a deeper mystical aspect of our life.

Debi: So you’re not just living on the surface.

Dr. Rob: Exactly. That balance, Jung said, is really a third element that comes into play. What happens when we get in touch with our unconscious mind is it creates a new synthesis, which he called the self, and it’s what people call the higher self. It creates a new sense of ourselves that is both this external, temporary life of cars and computers and work and all this beautiful stuff, with that internal mystical life of the soul, of the spirit. That balance is really what we’re looking for. It gives us a new sense of being in the world where it’s not just about our little ego life, but we’re connected to something bigger. To the cosmos, to the divine mind, whatever you call it. It connects us directly to that source.

Debi: You know what you just said is so powerful, because it reminds me that ultimately, the reason why we’re here is to have that experience, is to have that deeper experience of our spiritual nature. A lot of times we don’t know why were dissatisfied in life. We think, “Well, if I had a better job, or if I made more money, or if I had a kid, or got married, or if I did my TED talk, or became famous and had a bestselling book,” all these things that we try to do or achieve with the Law of Attraction, what we really– Underneath that desire is the desire for this mystical experience. We think it’s in those things and we’re mistaken, and that’s why we’re off the wrong track. If we’re thinking it’s outside of us or it’s in the future, “One day when I get those things, then I’ll have this mystical bliss in my life.”

Now, what I suggest is that we use the things that we desire, the desire to be a bestselling author, desire to have lots of money or desire to have a great partner, as a vehicle to understand our spiritual nature. We can still have those things and still use those things, but they’re in the right place. They’re not there to give us spiritual enlightenment, they’re there to help us realize that it’s already inside of us. So, we can use those projects that we have as a way to understand and open up deeper parts of ourselves.

A lot of times, I remember my life, the one thing– The times that I had the biggest transformation are when the external world stopped cooperating with me. It was like there’s a place, and we all get there, where it’s like, “Okay, the world’s not cooperating right now, I’m not getting what I wanted. I’m stuck.” It forces you to go inward because you can’t get out there anymore. When I broke my– I had my manless, jobless and homeless day, I said I had– I didn’t have a man to go to anymore, I didn’t have a job to go to anymore, I didn’t even know what my purpose was. The only thing I could do was go inward. I was not, and it was the biggest blessing.

You don’t want to get to that point in life, you trying to chase carrots with the Law of Attraction. What will happen is that when you do this work and you go inward, and you see yourself beyond the ego, when you do apply these principles, they happen really quickly. One of the things we tell our clients is that, “Be careful when you do this work because everything gets created faster, at a faster pace. If you stay in ego, you could try the Law of Attraction, it may take you a long time to create something, or you may still hit a wall because you’re still acting in ego, you’re not even having access to all your spiritual power.”

When you individuate, as Jung would call it, we end up having more access to a more broader experience of our power and then when we want abundance, it flows. When we [unintelligible 00:33:30] ready for that great relationship, it shows up. When we have a message that we want to be delivered in a bestselling book, the things, the world will tend to conspire to help us, but if we’re working from ego, it’s like we’re battling this physical world without the resources of our– [unintelligible 00:33:49] in the spiritual work, but we’re not really living a spiritual life.

Dr. Rob: Yes.

Debi: It’s a lot. It’s a big topic, right?

Dr. Rob: Yes. If you have questions on this topic or related topics, please feel free to comment–

Debi: On our Facebook group, Debi and Dr. Rob Show.

Dr. Rob: Yes. We’ll try to do some some podcasts on those topics.

Debi: Yes, I know we covered a lot today, but tying it back to spirituality and science, it’s the same thing. Materialism and spirituality, we need both. We are here not to flow on clouds and dance with unicorns on rainbows, although that would be fun in dreams. We’re here to live and have full human experience, to feel pain, to feel love, to feel passion, to feel orgasms, to feel the sadness and grief and joy and newness and the gamut of being a human being.

We don’t want to give that up for spiritual life, but we also don’t want to get so overly dependent on these human needs that we forget the spiritual life, and we don’t want to escape the humanity by just being all spiritual. We want to have that synergy, like you said. It is really important. Yes, I’d love to hear your questions about this topic. Challenge us if you disagree, and let us know how this has changed you by going to our podcast Facebook group, and we’ll see you next time on the Debi and Dr. Rob Show.

Dr. Rob: All right. Take care.

Debi: Bye.

Dr. Rob: Much love.


Debi: You’ve been listening to the Debi and Dr. Rob Show. To find out more about us, you can visit us on our website at debiandrob.com. Also, please don’t forget to subscribe to us on iTunes or Google Play. We’d love to see you on every show. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope you remember to believe in your biggest dreams.


[VIDEO] Dr. Rob’s Interview About Spiritual Psychology

Dr. Rob appeared on Adam Evans’ podcast about the power of Jungian Coaching and Spiritual Psychology.

Dr. Robert Maldonado joins Adam on the @wetheaether podcast for a discussion on the technology of the human brain/mind, and how one may be culturally influenced by community and even family lineage (morphic resonance). Adam and Rob have a great discussion on several topics surrounding Carl Jung, and Jungian Psychology. Rob is a spiritual coach and teacher that helps others identify and achieve their highest potential, and trains them on how to reciprocate the teachings within their own communities.

Watch the video here:


If you enjoyed Dr. Rob’s interview, check out our free video course: Unlock Your Hidden Power by clicked on the image below! Learn the 3 Spiritual Principles of Success for Exceptional Women Entrepreneurs with a big mission. Overcome unconscious barriers to creating the life you want.

Click here

[PODCAST] Bridging the Gap to Your Desires

Have you ever felt like your dreams are too far away? Do you look toward the future and wonder when things are going to work out for you? In this episode, we explain the true reality that creates your life. There is a GAP between where you are and where you want to be but …

[VIDEO] How to Align Your Action to Get What You Deeply Desire

If you are getting results that are not aligned with your conscious desires, then this video will help you see how your “deepest driving desire” in your unconscious mind is driving your life. Based on the teachings in the Upanishads, Debi and Rob discuss the power of understanding the unconscious drives that keep you from attracting the right relationship, the success and money you want and finding inner peace. Watch our new video (or read the transcript below!)

“You are your deepest driving desire. As you deepest driving desire is, so is your will.

As your will is so is your deed. As you deed is so is your destiny.”

-The Upanishads

Debi: Hi, this is Debi and DR. Rob.

Dr. Rob: Nice to be here.

Debi: How are you today?

Dr. Rob: Good. How are you doing?

Debi: I’m good. I’m excited to talk about how we take action and not get the results we want and the wisdom of the Upanishads of the deepest driving desire.

Dr. Rob: Here’s a quote for you. “You’re your deepest driving desire. As your deepest driving desire is, so is your will. As your will is, so is your deed, and as your deed is, so is your destiny.” There you see the domino effect directly from the mind, your deepest driving desire in your mind all the way to what you create as your destiny.

Debi: Your results. Carl Young said it, “Until you make the unconscious conscious, you’ll think your life is just fate. The things that show up.” I’m paraphrasing but that if you don’t really understand this. When we talk about the deepest driving desire, it’s really the unconscious, what we’re not aware of.

Dr. Rob: Absolutely.

Debi: Let’s start with just how normal people think.


Debi: Not us.

Dr. Rob: I haven’t seen a normal person yet.

Debi: That an ordinary person thinks that, “I have an idea. I’m going to think about this idea and I’m going to set an intention,” which a lot of people set their intentions which is great. There’s nothing wrong with that. Then they take action toward that intention like, “I want to find love, I want to make more money, I want to change careers.” Then they take action and then they get the results that’s not really what they want. They say, “How come I’m getting all these people that are not appropriate? How come the money is not coming in? Why is this happening?”

Dr. Rob: The reason it’s not happening is because the deepest driving desire is unconscious. The unconscious mind, at the personal level, we can think of it as our program mind. All the conditioning that has gone on from the time that we were born up until yesterday or this morning, that’s your conditioning and it’s unconscious because you’re not thinking about it but it’s having a big impact on how you see the world, what you think in possible, and what you think is impossible for yourself.

Debi: What’s really interesting is that it’s unconscious, but when you find out what it is, you notice everywhere. Like it’s always been right in front of you and the only way to really see your unconscious mind is looking at your results in life. First of all, the first step is to say that I have– there’s no independent reality outside of my mind that the results in my life are not by some other force besides what’s inside me.

If you don’t even get that far, why even do this kind of work? If you’re thinking that the power is outside of you, then why work with your mind anyway just to find a way to feel good about your life and settle for– rationalize why you have the life you want? You have to say, “Yes, I’m creating this,” and that means everything. That means the things you don’t want, the things you do want. Your results are showing your unconscious mind. That’s the first clue.

Dr. Rob: Then if you want to see what is my unconscious mind or what is my deepest driving desire, that’s hidden from me, look at your results. Are you happy with your relationship? Are you happy with your work? Are you happy with your creativity level? Anything. The external situation right now in those areas is what’s in your mind. It is like looking into a mirror. It’s reflecting back to you what you really believe.

Debi: Here’s an example. If you’re in business for yourself or you want to get a promotion or you’re in a corporate job and you have this intention that, “I want to get a raise, I want to get a promotion.” Or, “I’m on my own business. I want to increase my revenue,” and you’re setting the intention. You set your goals, you take action and then you’re not reaching those goals. You’re looking and you’re saying, “Okay. Well, the bank account is not showing any sales,” or, “the job got passed over. My boss is telling me I can’t have that job.”

The ordinary person will say, “I’m doing something wrong. I got to change strategies or I have to go find another job somewhere.” The layperson says, “What I’m I doing to create this? What is this saying about my mind?” Then you start taking the power back. If you blame it on everyone else or you feel it’s something you’re chasing out there, you lose all your power.

Dr. Rob: That’s right because you’re giving your power away. You’re saying, “I’ll only be happy, be content and I’ll be in charge when things external to me line up in a certain way.” Good luck waiting for that. You might be waiting forever.

Debi: It’s never enough too if you keep looking for that carat that’s going to fulfill you. I think the greatest freedom in the world is to know that you create your life to know that you’re in charge. The system is really great. You got the results and you’re saying, “The money is not in the bank. I know I’m creating this.” Again, it’s not beating yourself up and saying, “I’m a bad person. I did it wrong.” It is more like “be curious about it. Be open in curiosity. “Let’s get to know each other’s results. Let’s see what’s in here.” You will have an emotion typically responding to that result.

Dr. Rob: Those emotions are really the key to finding what are the limitations, the assumptions that you’re making about what’s possible for your life. It’s the emotional reaction to life that really limits us because you feel it as something tangible. You feel it as kind of you’ve hit the wall. People talk about those glass ceilings. That’s exactly it. It’s not that there’s an actual ceiling there. It’s that there’s a mental ceiling and an emotional ceiling that you’re hitting and you’re not allowed to go past it until you do that inner work and that’s what it’s about. How do you make the unconscious conscious? You have to look inside. You have to examine your life.

Debi: Let me give you an example to bring it down for you to apply. Say you’re not making the money and you have this fear around that money. Whatever that is. I examine that fear. The fear could be, at first, “I’m not going to be able to pay my bills. I’m going to be homeless.” Deeper, if you examine it a little more and you just be in that feeling, you’re going to notice that what you really are afraid of is maybe what people think, what you think about yourself.

You feel like a loser. You feel like everyone else will think you’re a loser. There’s maybe a survival mechanism and what I found is that there’s three main drivers that are driving your results. One is pride. If you’re feeling ashamed because you didn’t get the result, you’re driven by pride.

Dr. Rob: I know that one.

Debi: You do? You’re worried about what other people think. The second one is protection where you feel that “if I have that money, I’m going to feel a sense of security.” A lot of people, money for them is protection. They’re taking that action but they’re feeling that, “money is going to protect me.” The third one is power where, “If I have that money, I’m going to have power. I’m going to be able to use and wield my power to do things in the world.”

If you’re using money to get power, to get pride, to be proud of yourself or to feel protected, what you’re doing is you’re giving away all your power basically to this money and so when you’re taking the actions, the deepest driving desire is really the fear of not having it. You’re having all this energy that’s actually giving you– that matches feeling that you have in the result. You see how that makes a line. It’s kind of a crooked way to go but you see that the feeling that you get in response to your result is showing the feeling that’s unconsciously driving your actions and your will.

Dr. Rob: In that sense, psychologically, it would mean it’s more of a defense mechanism, a compensation for your feeling of lack and you’re using the money or the success as a way to compensate for something. That’s not a success and that’s not creativity. Basically, you’re just running the same ego program but in– What do they call that? An external scheme.

Debi: Like a racket or something. You figure it out like the three cups that you try to find the nut under. The feeling that you get from that result is showing that fear that’s underneath. If you don’t have a fear around the result and say, “Okay, I didn’t get that result. Let me go back.” You just keep moving. What most people do is they freak out and not getting the result, they get triggered and then they feel stuck and they feel like, “Let me just try harder.” What they’re doing is just digging deeper into that fear. How do we let go with that fear of not being enough feeling like the money is going to save us because, of course, people argue, “I have to pay my bills. I have to feed myself and keep the roof above my head and pay my mortgage,” or whatever.

Rob: Well, all those are survival mechanisms and we need those things in place and we need to understand the basic levels of survival, no doubt. Creativity, creating your life, it really means understanding that the mind is the one that’s dictating your reality. Most people operate on the opposite principle. They’re waiting for external circumstances to show them that things are possible and that’s not going to happen because the external will simply reflect what you believe is possible. As you start to examine your mind, you’re opening up new possibilities in your mind. Then you’ll see those possibilities externally manifested.

Debi: That’s a beautiful way to say it because it’s really that if you really truly believe there’s lack in your life and that you don’t really feel that you can create wealth and that you can create success, it’s almost like it’s basically interrupting the flow. You’re putting all that into your action. You’re not going with that clarity of mind thinking, “I’m a conscious being. I can create what I want and I’m going to go get it and I’m going to feel in the flow and I’m going to receive it and there’s no doubt in my mind.”

What most people do is that they doubt it and they look for the results to prove that they can have it like you said versus believing it on the onset. We have to reverse engineer. What I would leave you with is, think about the emotion. What results are you getting? Reverse engineer what actions did you take, and then think about the energy you put into the action. There’s a lot of fear and rushing and intensity of trying to force things to happen. Then the will is the why? Why do you want what you want? Why do you want the money? What’s that intention about? Then you go into, is there fear underneath it? That is really where the rubber meets the road, as you say, to find out what that is.

Rob: Right. Again, your deepest driving desire is who you are, meaning it’s going to give you your destiny. As your deepest driving desire, so is your will, meaning that’s how you’re going to intend things. As your will is, so is your deed. Your will determines your pattern of actions. As your pattern of actions as your deed is so is your destiny.

Debi: It’s who you’re. It’s who you’re being when you take those actions. Not actually what you’re doing which is kind of crazy because a lot of the people think, “I have to have the right strategy. I have to have the right marketing and my brand and my funnel.” It’s all of those things are fine because you need to take the action, but if you bring this fear and this beingness of lack into everything you do, your results will show you exactly where you are. All you need to do is look at your results to see what’s in your mind. Then you have the keys to unlock it and change it.

Rob: The keys to the kingdom.

Debi: Thanks for joining us today for this brief little chat. We hope you find out what your deepest driving desire is and make it confident, powerful, higher level desire, higher purpose for knowing who you’re and the limitlessness that you have to create what you, and we hope to see you soon on another video. Visit us at Debiandrob.com

[VIDEO] What is Jungian Coaching?

Developed by Robert Maldonado, Ph.D., Jungian Coaching is a psychology-based coaching system that is based on Jungian Psychology and Eastern Wisdom. Basic life coach training will help build up your ego and give you action steps toward your goals but Jungian Life Coaching is much more profound which leads you to become your true self. …

[VIDEO] What is True Confidence?

Have you ever felt that your lack of confidence stops you from getting what you want in life? Have you been labeled with “low self-esteem” or being needy and want to fix that part of yourself. Listen to this quick video by Debi Berndt Maldonado where she explains the truth about confidence and how you can have it right now without having to fix yourself.

That’s really interesting when I talk about– When I first started in my personal development journey, I was labeled having low self-esteem. I was trying to diagnose, what was wrong with me, why did I feel so unhappy with my life? Why couldn’t I find relationships? Why didn’t I have the career I wanted? Why did I have the bosses I had? It all came down to, “You have low self-esteem.” For most of my young adult life, I was really trying to build up my self-esteem, and a lot of personal development is about building confidence.

Here’s the thing, most people think that making an ego and making your personality more confident and appealing to people is the key, but what we’re really doing is putting on a mask. We’re not really feeling confident inside, we’re acting confident. That whole idea of the imposter syndrome, that’s where it really comes from, because we feel like we can’t be ourselves, we can’t be vulnerable, we have to put on this confident air in order to get the things we want in life. I think it puts too much pressure on people to be this perfection. What I’ve discovered is true confidence is having confidence in your higher self to guide you.

That you can be a complete wreck around people who love you, you can be insecure, you can be needy, you could be emotional and feel low self-esteem and people will still love you and know that that’s not all of who you are. It’s about embracing that low self-esteem, embracing those little insecure parts of ourselves that really give us true confidence. Really it’s the hardest thing to do, most people– It’s really scary we’re not taught or conditioned to be so revealing about ourselves. I found that even around you when we were first starting to date, when I was really honest and vulnerable and scared, you had told me once, “I really feel closer to you now.”

I think that’s the key is that people could smell when you are hiding your insecurity. What’s most endearing is that when you’re open and yourself and that makes people want to be close to you. True confidence is loving all parts of yourself, it’s loving the parts that you’re really good and your strengths, and also loving all the things that aren’t so pleasing sometimes, that if you love all those parts of yourself, you’ll find that you’ll surround yourself with people who love all those parts too. It makes you feel more relaxed in life and the pressure’s off.

That’s my take on true confidence. When you think about the higher self, it can never be harmed, it can never be insecure, it can never be wounded. The only thing that feels that way is the ego. If we transcend it and access that wonderful part of our minds that’s divine and express the divine woman, we never have to worry about those insecure times because we know that’s not really what defines us.

[VIDEO] How Your Dreams Can Help You Understand Yourself

If you have every been intrigued about dream interpretation, watch this video where Rob and Debi explain the power dreams have to help you understand yourself and your life.

Dreams are a part of spiritual tradition and have been used for thousands of years to predict future events, understand deeper aspects of consciousness and travel through time.

For the every day person, you can use dreams to help you in life decisions, understand yourself and where you are stuck in getting what you want and even balance out emotionally.

You dream every night even if you don’t remember the dreams. Listen to tips on basic dream symbols, how to remember your dreams and how to use them to change your life.

Debbie: Hi, this is Debbie and Dr. Rob and we have a great topic for you today and it’s about dreams.

Dr. Rob: My favorite topic.
Debbie: And not the dreams, “The making your dreams come true.” but those things, we go sleep at night and we say, “Why was I on a spaceship, and why was my mother there, and why was she serving me breakfast and I was refusing, and it was a crazy dream.”

Dr. Rob: “Why did I show up at work in my shorts?”

Debbie: “In my underwear.” So yes, the dreams are really fascinating and [unintelligible 00:00:31] in psychology is a lot of dreams interpretation, just learning more about young in psychology really helped me understand because I’m a great dreamer, so very juicy.

Dr. Rob: Yes, a lot of people are. We all are great dreamers if you think about since we were kids, our dreams have given us these incredible experiences during the night but as we grew up well, a lot of us lose track and we just forget about them and they just recede into the background, but the research shows dreams are really important, and they do carry a message. I know this is controversial but Jungian psychology has always held that we can still use dreams to learn about our own mind, to help us in personal development, obviously, and not only that, it is a part of the spiritual psychology and part of the spiritual tradition of humanity.
If you look at the Bible, the [unintelligible 00:01:35], any of the ancient literature, that dreams were central to the work.

Debbie: Yes. You hear a lot of the mythology people or stories of the kings having their priest tell them, interpret their dreams for them or the priest has a dream and says, “You should go to battle or you should not.” I know that for a lot of people they think, “Oh, that was just a crazy dream.” or “I was worried about this and I had a dream about it so that’s why.” or they say, “I had a dream about my ex that he’s coming back. I think it’s going to happen.” I think it’s all precognitive but it’s giving them a sign of something that is about to happen.

Dr. Rob: Yes, it’s a huge topic. Let’s just talk about a few types of dreams so that we can start to get a handle on it. First of all, there’s the typical dream which is what people call their everyday dreams because in the dream their-

Debbie: [inaudible 00:02:34]

Dr. Rob: -yes, it’s about everyday life.

Debbie: Yes, like-

Dr. Rob: Their work.

Debbie: Their house.

Dr. Rob: And their own house or driving their own car.

Debbie: Even childhood memories a little bit, or would that be typical-

Dr. Rob: Yes, that’s typical but let’s say the typical dream is the one that people wake up and they say, “Oh, I know what that’s about because I was worried about work and I was dreaming about work.” that stuff. So that’s one kind of dream. We shouldn’t dismiss those, we’ll get back to that “Why we shouldn’t dismiss those.” The other kind of dream is what we call “The big dream.”
The big dream is when you wake up and you know that was an experience-

Debbie: You’re going to write this down?

Dr. Rob: Yes. That something was going on there. You were in another place experiencing something important. You’re not sure what but you know something happened in your dream.

Debbie: That sticks with you, you just think about it the whole day. It’s almost like you want to tell someone about it because it’s so fantastical, or so intense that you’re just like “Wow, that was really incredible.” Other times they wake you up at a bed too.

Dr. Rob: Yes. Just like big dreams, yes. They’ll wake you up and everybody has experience-
Debbie: So, we had typical dreams, we have big dreams.

Dr. Rob: Then I would say there are these pre-lucid dreams. Now, pre-lucid dreams are when you know you’re dreaming but you can’t quite wake up either in the dream or you can’t wake yourself up from the sleep dream. Everybody has experienced these two where you know the scene is too bizarre, too strange or too uncomfortable for you, and you’re trying to wake yourself up or that you know, “I must be dreaming because this is so weird.” but you can’t quite wake yourself up.
You’re trying to run maybe, and you can’t move your body that much, or those kinds of situations. Those are pre-lucid dreams. Now, they’re pre-lucid because they’re leading us to the next level which is a lucid dream.

Debbie: And lucid is where you’re really awake in the dream, and you’re feeling that “Okay, I am dreaming and I know I’m dreaming.” and you had these weird experiences, it almost feels like an out of body experience I must say, you can move things around. You can make conscious choices and it’s really profound, and every time I wake up from a lucid dream, it’s like you have the greatest high afterwards, there’s something barely, I don’t know what happens to your brain but you wake up and you’re just like, “Wow, I feel so at peace. I feel this glow.” It’s really amazing. Some people like to just do it for that feeling.

Dr. Rob: Yes, it’s certainly a revelation for most of us that, “I didn’t know my mind had this capacity to do this thing.” but the research shows, most people have experienced the lucid dream at some point in their lives, either when they were children, teenagers or recently. It is a shame that if you go on the internet, a lot of people talk about lucid dreams but they’re playing around with it, they don’t know what to do with them, it’s like they’re just playing around like a video game kind of thing.

Debbie: Virtual reality.

Dr. Rob: Yes because it is like a virtual reality apparatus that gives you these experiences, but lucid dreams have a spiritual significance and they relate back to what’s called, “Dream yoga.” Now, dream yoga, they were actually incorporated in the discipline of yoga to where these dreams would help you in your personal development, your spiritual development and that’s really what they’re meant for.
Now, beyond that, then you get into those out of body experiences and those kinds of-

Debbie: OBEs.

Dr. Rob: Yes. They’re kind of related like you said to lucid dreams because, let’s say in a typical lucid dream, you’re inside a dreamscape and so you’re moving in a dreamscape in an imaginary dreamscape and out of body experiences, you’re moving around in this waking world but your body is in bed asleep, but your consciousness is moved outside of it.

Debbie: I remember I had one where I woke up and I was walking around my apartment at the time and I was holding pretty my hand on the railing to go down the stairs and my hand was going through the railing and I was like, “Oh, I’m dreaming.” and it was just this floaty weird feeling and then I was up back and woke up but it was just kind of, “Wow, that’s cool.” But I think like you said, a lot of people use it like a playground, like, “Oh, that’s cool.”
So, here’s the question for you Dr. Rob, because people have those experiences, does that mean they’re more spiritual, does that mean, “If I get enlightened, I’ll be able to have those experiences more?” How do we move through those different levels of dreams and what does that mean about our spiritual life?

Dr. Rob: Yes, I would say that it’s a natural capacity that we all have. How you use it just depends on how you consciously approach your mind, so obviously, you can use your intelligence to rob a bank or to help establish a new religion or something here. It depends on what you’re doing with your mind. It’s the same thing with the dream world, it depends on how you see your purpose in life and the use of your intelligence.

Debbie: Because you could be unenlightened to have a lucid dream and just go to these lucid dream workshops and just float around and just do nothing with it out of ego, or you can actually use it for higher spiritual work. Then, even the typical dreams, for me, I found that out of all the work I’ve ever done in my life, the visualizations, working with emotions, the dreams actually gave me a direct experience of my divine self.
It gave me a direct experience of understanding like the shadow work with Jungian and shadow work, understanding what’s going on personally in my life and my psyche and then also it gives me information that I couldn’t get consciously, and then, I feel like the dream state, it’s like this is a part of me, greater part of me that’s speaking to me that’s giving me insight and direction all the time.
We could think of it as a fiction novel that we’re reading or we can think of it as real wisdom that we’re getting every night. If you don’t use it, the message is wasted, there’s a higher part of our mind that’s trying to get to us all the time, but if we don’t pay attention to the message, it just goes away. Those people who have recurring dreams, what would you say about that?

Dr. Rob: Yes, recurring dreams is definitely you’re unconscious mind is trying to get your attention.

Dr. Rob: And for some reason, you haven’t absorbed the message yet.

Debbie: It’s like it keeps hitting that wall.

Dr. Rob: It’s not getting through to you and, therefore, it just keeps repeating that. One other category of dreams that a lot of people ask about is precognitive dreams. Precognitive dreams simply means that you’re getting a glimpse into something that hasn’t happened yet like a prophetic dream. These are well-documented also. It’s a well-documented phenomenon. A lot of people have them and it just shows that in the dream mindset, in that state of mind of dreams, REM, the laws of physics do not apply the same way that they apply in the waking world. You’re able to see into the future a little bit.

Debbie: A lot of people say, “How do I know it’s precognitive?” Versus, “It’s just an ordinary dream about my life.”

Dr. Rob: Only through practice.

Debbie: I also say that, “Well, if it comes true–” A lot of times you don’t realize it’s a precognitive dream until it actually shows up and then you’ll get like you said, experience. You’ll get a sense of, “This has a different feeling to it.” Sometimes it’like a warning or something like that. Like I said, a lot of people think, “I jumped at my ex-boyfriend and we’re coming back together. That means I should go back with him.” It’s not that. It’s a symbolic a message that the dream is trying to tell you. Most dreams are.

Dr. Rob: This is why most people aren’t able to take advantage of the dreams because the unconscious is speaking a completely different language than the one we use. It’s speaking in a very ancient language. Some people think it’s probably the original language that humans used. It’s a symbolic language. If you look at your dreams right, they’re very visual. Sometimes it uses puns and metaphor to put the message together. It will use a lot of different bits of memory, emotions, sensations to put the message together. For most people, it’s very confusing. They think, “That’s just a crazy dream. It’s must have been indigestion or something.”

Debbie: “That Mexican food I had last night.”

Dr. Rob: Actually, once you learn to decipher the symbolic language, it starts to make sense. The primary objective of the dream world is to balance out your conscious mind, meaning whatever you’re working on consciously. Here is where it comes in your spiritual development, is that whatever questions you have, philosophical, moral, work, relationship questions you have in your conscious mind, the unconscious will try to answer them for you so that you can have some clarity around those issues. If you don’t understand it’s messages, you’re missing half of the psychic message for you.

Debbie: It’s really interesting. When we do courses, a lot of people will come to us because they like the visualizations. We do dream courses and they’re not as popular. It’s like finding my love and money courses. It’s so funny that every course we end up doing becomes a dreams course because people start getting a taste of, “That’s what this dream is telling me.” It’s like they found treasure in their mind that they’ve been missing out on. It’s like these secret messages that you’ve been ignoring your whole life are right in front of you every night to use and people just get addicted to it.
They just love it and they learn so much about themselves. One of the other things that we do is we teach our coaches how to do dream interpretation. If you’re interested in this kind of work, we have a certification program where we teach Jungian psychology and we really do a lot of work with dream interpretations. If you’re interested in finding out more, let us know because this is a fascinating topic.

Dr. Rob: Absolutely. We’ll have to do some more videos on dreams.

Debbie: Well, I hope you enjoyed it. I guess to leave before we lead off, just give them some practical activity is start writing down your dreams, and even if you don’t know what they mean, just know that they’re symbolic and read them. Read what you write down every day and what will happen is that the unconscious mind will start giving you those symbols and giving you more direction.
Then this intuitive part of you is going to start to see a pattern and you’re going to start to almost– If you’re sitting around that person that doesn’t speak your language, after a while, you start learning what they’re trying to tell you and then you just find a way to by being absorbed with it. Absorb yourself with that language and then see what the dreams may tell you.

Dr. Rob: Certainly, the key is to improve your dream recall and that’s the best way to do it. Is to start writing down your dreams.

Debbie: Great. Well, enjoy. I hope you have sweet dreams and we’ll see you n the next video.

Dr. Rob: See you next time.

Debbie: Take care.

[VIDEO] What is Enlightenment and How Do You Attain It?

If you ever wondered about what Enlightenment is really about, in this video we talk about what it is and how you can attain it. We dispel the falsehoods of Enlightenment taught in many self-development books about perfection and being all good.

Find out how you can attain Enlightenment and still have a rich, soulful and passionate life with love, success, wealth and health by practicing non-attachment.

Enlighten people get mad, they have bad days and they also know how to work with their mind to create harmony when they need it.

You can go further than just surviving in the ego-mind to becoming an advancing human being creating something amazing that is aligned with your true purpose in life.

Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs shows how to move up the pyramid to higher levels of being. Your external results do not reflect your level of enlightenment. You can be very successful materialistically but not be evolved. There is no spiritual trick to manifest money, success or love. There is no quick fix to reach enlightenment.

Move from survival mind to enlightened mind – it is already within you to be enlightened. You already are the higher self and have that divine consciousness within you. You are just misperceiving your experience and misidentifying with the ego.

Enlightenment is a perception rather than a “doing” through action. Psychologically you need the right understanding. Carl Jung gave us a map of the mind and psyche and how you can navigate through yourself to discover the deeper part of you – the collective unconscious.

You are not an ordinary person. You are an amazing being.

Debi: Hi. This is Debi, Debi and Dr. Robin. I’m with Dr. Rob and we are going to talk today on the topic of, my favorite topic is enlightenment.

Dr. Robin: Wow.

Debi: What does it mean to be enlightened? Are you enlightened? We’ll find out. Are you enlightened?

Dr. Robin Maldonado: You go for the jugular. Enlightenment, first of all, it came to the west from the east obviously. Vivekananda, was the of the first ones to talk about it when he came in the early 1900’s. He’s from the Ramakrishna’s tradition of yoga, meditation, those kind of things. This idea of enlightenment entered the vocabulary of the west and it’s been around since then. What it means, obviously there’s a lot of different definitions of it, but our definition of it would be, someone who is self-actualized.

Now, self-actualization for us, it simply means this, you understand that you’re not your persona ego, your personality. There’s something deeper in you that you can express.

Debi: Now, don’t most people think that they’re spiritual? They say I have my higher self or my spiritual self or I have a soul. Does that make them enlightened?

Dr. Robin: Those are beliefs. There’s nothing wrong with beliefs. That’s how we start. We start by believing certain things and moving towards them, but really enlightenment is the realization of it, meaning you understand and you experience yourself as this other element in you besides your personality.

Debi: So, is a realization a what we call a direct experience where you have this clarity. You have a self-experience of it versus just reading the concept in a book or listening to a video like this and say, “Oh okay, I get that I’m a higher purpose.” Let’s talk about the ego for a minute. Why are we not wanted identify with the ego and why do we do identify with the ego? I know a lot of big questions here. [laughs]

Dr. Robin: Sure.

Debi: But you’re a Doc, you can handle it.

Dr. Robin: We never shy away from big questions, we love it. If you think about [unintelligible 00:02:32], the way we’re set up biologically, we’re born and thrown into this world and we experience ourselves as individuals. There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s what we’re meant to experience ourselves as. As this body, as this individual who has action, who can take action in the world.

It works up to a certain point. Once you get the hang of survival and you got survival down there seems to be a need to go further than that. You can’t go further than that if you stay stock with the idea that all you are is the ego persona.

Debi: When we talk about survival it’s basically self-protection, the body, material things in life. You really just kind of like, “I got to make sure I’m making enough money and I’m paying my bills. I’m eating daily. I’m feeding my family.” [laughs]

Dr. Robin: Right the hierarchy needs like Maslow says.

Debi: Having a relationship, those type of things.

Dr. Robin: Yes. The first few layers of the pyramid, you got your biology down, your survival needs.

Debi: You’re breathing every day.

Dr. Robin: You got your self-esteem needs and your social needs met, but you want to keep going at the pyramid and up higher. Maslow talks about self-actualization, meaning, is there something else bigger than you? How that you can connect to besides just survival. A lot of people, even people that are doing very well, they’re still stock at that survival mode. They’re just using their success to protect themselves against those imagined threats from the external world.

Debi: You can have a million dollars so you can have a million dollar company and you’re still like rush [unintelligible 00:04:31], so attached to it. I remember one time you said to me once which I was like, “Wow that’s brilliant, because you’re so smart.” A rich person is attached to his mansion as much a poor person is attached to his cardboard box.

Dr. Robin: Absolutely.

Debi: Homeless person. It’s that same grasping of, this is my box, this is mine and you could have that. As a homeless person, you can have that as a millionaire. It has nothing to do with how much money you have. You can do this with relationships too. You can have a relationship, but if you’re holding on to it with the vice grip like this person is my survival, I’m floating in the ocean and they’re my life preserver. Then, you’re not really living, you’re just surviving and walking on egg shells and afraid to leave a marriage or relationship because it’s based on survival. So, so many people are afraid to make changes in their life, because everything they’ve built around them is to keep them comfortable in their you call it the little place by the fire, with the catch and the blanket. You’re just surviving.

Dr. Robin: The little hobbit home.

Debi: We’re meant for so much more. How can someone go from survival mind to enlightened mind? Can they do that in 24 hours? [laughs]

Dr. Robin: The great news is this; We already have everything we need in our mind. We’re given it freely. Even in eastern philosophy, it teaches that, “You are already are the higher self. You already have that divine consciousness within you. It’s simply that you’re misunderstanding and misperceiving your experience and you’re misidentifying with the ego.” That’s all. It’s really about correcting the misperception.

Debi: So, it’s more about perception than doing. A lot of people think they have to go to yoga retreat or meditation retreat and be in silence and find that inner peace. Of course, that’s a vehicle to do that. Really what you’re doing is you’re shifting perceptions. You don’t need to do that to get perception, to shift your perception, but you do need a practice to get there.

Dr. Robin: Absolutely. The truth is one, but the wise call it by many names. There’s a lot of ways to get there, but it’s all the same place. You can call it salvation. You can call it enlightenment, self-actualization. It’s the same place. You can get through it through many techniques like yoga meditation, spiritual practices or prayer. All those beautiful things. Psychologically, all you need is that right understanding and then you start taking action from that perspective.

Debi: This is why I love the Jung-Jung so much. Carl Jung, the Swiss psychologist gave us a map of the mind and the psyche. He talks about the ego and the persona and then the shadow. Through that work of just understanding ourselves and what we’ve been cultivating to survival then we’re able to move to the higher levels. It gives us this window into a deeper part of ourselves. He calls the collective unconscious which is our divine self or the big self that can give us wisdom and knowledge. It makes us feel that we’re not just this little tiny person, that we’re this great being. That’s why I live the psychology of Carl Jung. He gives us what he calls individuation where you’re individuating away from you ego.

I love what he said. I think he probably mentioned this too is, in a sunrise like in the sunset, “The beginning of our life is building up the ego and finding a way to survive.” The second part of our life after 35, depending on how long you live, is really about letting go with that ego, letting go with that conditioning and starting to become who we are. If you look at your life, it happens a little naturally but can do it much faster than waiting 30 years at the end of your life to say, “I’m awaken now.” You can do it faster. We’re built for it, it’s not only some people can be enlightened. You’re spiritual gifted and you have all the old soul qualities that give you this enlightenment. Every single person is enlightened. Even the worst person you know has the potential to be enlightened right now. It’s not about that pre-destined for certain people and not others.

Dr. Robin: That is great news for all the world.

Debi: For the world? [laughs]

Dr. Robin: That’s really our position that this is not just for few people. It’s for all of us. It’s not as hard as most people believe in. In other words, a lot of people asks us, “Is this going to take 20 years, 20, 30 years of hard work.” No, you already are the divine mind. Your consciousness is already intact. It’s never been anything else, but you need to

will do the work to realize it, to understand it and then to experience it in that direct way that you were saying, that direct experience something.

Debi: Well, I have one more question.

Dr. Robin: Absolutely.

Debi: What is an enlightened person look like? I think that is really where a lot of people think have an idea of what an enlightened person with, how you can recognize them?

Dr. Robin: Right, what is their life look like?

Debi: Yes, what is life look like, and how do they recognize their belief? I think a lot of people think that an enlightened person is never angry, and it is floating, and they don’t make money. They don’t borrow money,-

Dr. Robin: Oh, right they don’t.

Debi: -they’re living in this peaceful like, you getting too much. They are serving the world.

Dr. Robin: That’s a misunderstanding. That person has never existed.

Dr. Robin: It exists as an idea perhaps, but that person has never existed. It’s just human life, and from the external, it appears the same way, because the person has to breathe, has to work, has to sleep like everyone else.

Debi: So, you don’t have to leave your home or your family or any nothing-

Dr. Robin: Nothing like that.

Debi: -or even your job to be enlightened?

Dr. Robin: No.

Debi: You just what’s happening internally, your experience changes. You’re not as stressed anymore. You understand what you’re seeing, and actually, enlightenment helps you direct your life consciously versus just being led by the ego or led by that conditioning. It’s a beautiful thing, and also there’s not like a switch where you turn the alignment on, and then you’re enlightened, and everything is perfect. The enlightened person is constantly wrestling with their ego mind.

There’s a misperception that, “Oh, when you’re enlightened you’re not going to be worried anymore. You’re not going have any problems, you’re going to be blissful.” I remember one of our teachers at one of the Buddhist centers we went to. He would walk around, and they were like, “What’s going on today.” And he’s like rubbing his hands together saying, “I’m so excited I have so problems.” He uses the problems to go to a deeper level.

We don’t want to run away from life as an enlightened person. We don’t want to not have wonderful sex and have great money, and success and beautiful bodies, and all those things that we want from a human standpoint, but we also put it in its right place, and I think that’s the difference. We don’t make that the goal. We make enlightenment the goal and then the other stuff. We enjoy a lot more. It’s happier.

Dr. Robin: Yes, I would say also the enlightened person is not attached to those things. Now again, a lot of people misinterpreted a non-attachment as meaning they don’t care. It’s not that they don’t care, it’s that they understand the nature of this thing, that they’re temporary manifestations. We’re meant to enjoy these things, but they don’t define us, because first of all, they’re not going to last. They are temporary manifestations, and we’re meant to enjoy them in the moment and let them go.

Debi: That’s really the beauty of enlightenment is to– I think we enjoy it more when we’re less attached. We feel freer, and I guess put a wrap around. Summary of this is enlightenment is really a freedom of mind. Where your mind is free to create what you want, and not weighed down by the ego and the needs and the fears of just our human nature. It’s a beautiful thing.

Dr. Robin: Absolutely.

Debi: We offer enlightenment in a box, [laughs] if you’re interested. I’m Just kidding. Just join us and debiandrob.com and find out more about how you can become enlightened yourself.

Dr. Robin: See you next time.

Debi: Take care.

[00:13:49] [END OF AUDIO]





[VIDEO] How to Get Unstuck in Life

Watch this video if you want to get unstuck in life and can’t consciously figure out what was going wrong. When you do not reach your goals, something internal is in the way. Dr. Rob and I share the ancient wisdom of the GUNAS, the three qualities that you bring to every action. The Bhagavad Gita explains that there are three levels of being. You can look at how your actions are being directed through emotion and make the changes you need to get unstuck.


Find out how to reach great success by following these simple instructions. Are you feeling uninspired and have low energy? Do you feel you are always running non-stop and never resting? Are you feeling clear about what you want and what actions you should take? Do you understand your real purpose?

This is how anyone can gain momentum when stuck in life, using by using the power of emotion. If you want to go deeper and master this process, sign up for a free shadow (get unstuck) session with one of our coaches and get started on changing your life today!

Debi: Hi, this is Debi and Rob Rob. We’re here because we want to teach you a little something that may help you if you’re feeling stuck. A lot of people, they’re trying to make things happen in their life and they hit a wall, and they just don’t know what they’re doing wrong. We hope that this will help clarify-

Dr. Rob: Absolutely.

Debi: -maybe what you’re doing.

Rob: Yes, it’s simple psychology from the Bhagavad Gita. If you haven’t read the Gita, look it up. It’s an incredible book. These three modes of nature, they’re called the gunas.

Debi: The gunas.

Rob: [laughs]

Debi: We teach this to our clients all the time and they love it really.

Rob: It’s a funny word. It’s Sanskrit obviously, but what it means is qualities. It’s qualities of the nature. Now they also translate as to qualities of the mind, meaning what state of mind are you in.

Debi: Yes. A lot of people have a busy mind. Some people want to have a calm mind. The gunas is really a great way. Even emotional mood.

Rob: Yes, absolutely.

Debi: We can really talk about. Let’s begin. The gunas, there’s three levels.

Rob: Three levels. The first one is Tamas, and that translates as inertia.

Debi: Inertia.

Rob: Meaning there’s a heaviness, solidity to your mindset. Maybe when you feel lethargic, not a lot of movement and not a lot of energy. You’re in Tamas.

Debi: If you think about that Tamas is I think about a spiral. The Tamas is like you’re spiraling down. There’s days where maybe you’re sick. You get a cold and you want to be down. You’re exhausted. You want to take a bath and watch Netflix-

Rob: [laughs]

Debi: -all day. [laughs]

Rob: We’ve all been there.

Debi: Yes. [laughs] The end of the day at work, you can go into a Tamas state of mind. It’s that lower inertia. Not a lot energy, right before you go to sleep. It’s just like a [unintelligible 00:02:04]

Rob: [laughs]

Debi: You’re just that [laughs] very uninspired place almost.

Rob: Yes, that’s a good way to put it. Yes. Yes. The second one-

Debi: The second level.

Rob: -going up a word is Rajas. Rajas simply translates as passion and action. You think about the crimes of passion, obviously.

Debi: [laughs]

Rob: It’s that taking action, but you’re chasing your tail. You’re busy, busy doing a lot of things but not really focused and not really getting the results that you want.

Debi: If you think of the Tamas and the Rajas, that’s where actually I would say 99% of the people-

Rob: Absolutely.

Debi: -in the world operate. They go to work. They rush, rush, rush. They’re suffering traffic. They’re picking up their kids. They’re trying to make it in the business world. They’re studying or whatever and then they get exhausted. In the weekends, they just go into Tamas and then again they go back.

Rob: [laughs] Chill out.

Debi: Then think of it as trying to build their business. If you’re trying to build the business or you’re trying to succeed in the world. It just feels you never stop, but you’re passionate, you’re acting, but it’s not Tamas where you’re just exhausted. What happens is after a while you can’t keep it up anymore. Then you need Tamas to recharge. It’s almost we need to sleep at night, but Tamas isn’t sleep. Tamas is just, “Okay, I need to just recharge.”

If you actually never go into Tamas, if you just stay at Rajas all the time, you can actually get ill. It affects your body. People have ulcers. They have heart attacks. [laughs] It’s really can be really hard on your body and your mind. You just don’t have that peace of mind. What I see is people, they feel loss of energy, and then they get inspired, they take a lot of action and then what happens is they don’t get the results fast enough. Then they just go back in Tamas. I see this with people trying to date, and then people trying to build a business, people trying to lose weight and they’re trying to do that. Then all the sudden, they stop.

Rob: Right. If you think about Rajas, most of the world like I said is really based on Rajas. Everything created, like the buildings, the cars, and then all the movement that happens in modern world, that’s Rajas. Nothing wrong with it. Obviously, it gives us the material abundance and the creativity that goes on. There’s a third level to the gunas that is really ideal for creativity for the kind of things that we want to create and that’s Sattva. It translates as clarity of mind. That clarity of mind gives you that ability to envision what you want and to stay focused in a clear way. Yes. How have you experienced-

Debi: [laughs]

Rob: -the Sattva?

Debi: I like it. Well, it’s really funny because I’m a very, as you know, Rajas person. I’m very passionate. I’m from New Jersey. I got the East Coast Drive. What I notice is that when I’m running and running and running, it’s not as effective after a while. It’s good to get things going, but if I’m not clear, I’m just moving a lot of things. I call it rearranging the furniture. You’e just moving a lot of things.

The sattvic mind is when you just realize who you really are. You realize that you’re a higher self, that connection to your divine intelligence. I think Rajas and Tamas, the lower levels, you’re really in ego. You’re just trying to get things. You’re trying to acquire things. You feel separate from the world. Sattva is really where you feel this oneness and connection. It’s flowing. A lot of people call it being in the flow.

Rob: Right. It’s where people talk about, when they talk about being in the alpha state, in the meditative contemplative of state, but they’re fully aware and awake. It’s not a sleepy state. That would be back in Tamas. It’s a mind of clarity, but alert. Most meditative techniques, that’s what they’re trying to get you to do. They’re trying to get you to create a mind of Sattva so that you can see clearly.That you can think clearly, understand clearly, and focus your attention, your action on the things that you need to create.

Debi: One important thing, I remember when I was doing my spiritual work in my beginning years, I used to think that I just want to be in this clear, bubbly, love state. A lot of people think that’s all you need, and then everything just going to flow to you. You still need action.

Rob: Sure.

Debi: We want to look all these levels as if they’re all happening, but one predominates.

Rob: Exactly.

Debi: You’re still going to have a little groundedness. Tamas gives us that groundedness. It’s almost the solid ground that we are at. The raw passion. It can really get us moving, get us excited about life and taking action. Action’s really important. The sattvic mind carries us and makes the right action, the right direction. It’s less attached. It’s less fearful. It’s less stressful. It’s this flow. You need all three.

I think one of the biggest mistakes is that people think, “Just be in that clear mind, and meditate, and then everything is going to show up for me.” You have to have action. You have to have the groundedness as well. You need a time to recharge as well. Tamas isn’t bad to recharge, but some people stay stuck there, and then some people say stuck in that going mode. Then they just get exhausted and fall into Tamas. What you want to do is consciously enter these states, and use them for yourself versus letting yourself go to an autopilot and be driven by those states.

Rob: Absolutely. Yes. The idea in the Gita is that these are qualities in nature, but of course our mind, our brain is designed from nature and therefore these qualities include our mental states. The more you can identify them and practice creating them at will, the better off you are, obviously.

Debi: You know what would be a good metaphor for these three states is water. It has the quality that Tamas is a frozen quality. It’s stiff. The water is frozen. The Rajas is the moving water just like the ocean, and the waves. The Sattva is like the steam, that when the water evaporates, it becomes really light molecules. It’s like the denseness of the Tamas is great, and then the movement of the water, but then it also has that quality. The water doesn’t change itself. We are the pure self. That’s who we are. It’s just where we’re embodying, how are we channeling our true self in our lives.

Rob: Absolutely. Think about this qualities as you go through your day. Are you acting out of that drive to act without a clear vision? That’s Rajas. In that state, Rajas is predominating. There’s nothing wrong when you have deadlines and when you need to get things done, but you want to back up a little back bit and say, “Can I take action from a sattvic mind or a more tranquil clear mind?”

Debi: A good question would be, what is the urgency? When you feel yourself getting caught up, just ask yourself, “What is this urgency? What am I running from?” Because in Rajas you’tr kind of running from something. You could either be being in action towards something, or you can be in action running from something. Most of the time people are trying to make money and they’re running from lack of money. Or they’re trying to find love but coming from lack of love. The sattvic mind is, “I’m going to take action. I’m passionate about it because I’m going to have it.”

There’s no fear in it. It’s almost like, “I’m going after, and going out, and getting it.” Again, if you’re stuck, I want you to think about, “Which level am I operating in? Am I just not doing anything? Or am I rushing to get things done? Or how can I cultivate the sattvic mind?”

Rob: Sure.

Debi: A great way is to ask yourself, “What’s that urgency? What’s driving me?” If you’re in Tamas, the great question is, “Is there an urgency?” Like, “What is my passion? What I am passionate about?” You know what else is a good thing that you teach as well which I love, is that you can’t go from that inertia to Sattva. You’d always say that.

Rob: Right.

Debi: If someone’s in the Tamas inertia place, what would be the best thing for them to–?

Rob: The idea’s you need to go a stepwise upward movement, so the next level would be Rajas. The way to do that, if you’re stuck in a Tamic pattern, meaning there’s not a lot of energy in your life, not a lot of movement, not a lot of things happening, you can’t jump to that Sattvic clear mind right away. You have to go to creating reachable goals for yourself.

Debi: Small attainable goals?

Rob: Yes.

Debi: Small steps. Kind of like getting it moving, getting yourself moving again, and then you can move up to the Sattvic, but you can’t jump from nothing to clarity. I actually think the Rajas state is really good to cleanse ourselves from the heaviness of life. It’s kind of a purification that happens and helps us let go with that attachment, so we can have the things we want. The only reason we don’t have the things we want is because we don’t believe we can have them. When you’re in that Sattvic mind, that clear mind, you’ll have that certainty that you are creating your life.

Rob: Absolutely.

Debi: That’s really where we need to go. I hope you enjoyed. This is really a great topic. There’s so much we could teach you about it, but just a small bite of getting you started on where you’re at, and how to get unstuck in your life. For more information, come to our website at debianddrrob.com and get some more free tips on how to live the best life you can.

Rob: See you next time.

Debi: Take care.

[00:12:53] [END OF AUDIO]

[VIDEO] Weight Loss Meditation based on Mindbody Psychology

Watch this beautiful video while your mind is infused with positive messages about healthy eating and watch your eating patterns change so you can lose weight and feel good in your body. Relax to this powerful visualization with hypnotic suggestions for healthy eating and lifestyle for weight loss, weight management, exercise and better nutrition. Listen …