If you are a business owner or entrepreneur or even jockeying for your next promotion, you know the value of mastering sales. Unfortunately, many of the sales training systems available are developed by men and do not naturally fit a woman’s style. In this episode, Rob interviews Debi about her experience in sales and how women are natural salespeople.
In this episode, we talk about pitching “like a girl” and how that is a good thing.
• All parts of business involve sales if you want to be successful.
• How the majority of leaders in businesses are men and the training available are masculine-driven.
• How you do not need to be aggressive to be a great salesperson
• Learn how the feminine approach to sales is a better fit for women business owners
• How sales is about sharing information and helping them solve a problem
• How women who care too much can affect their ability to sell If you ever struggled with sales tactics that just did not fit for you, this episode will help you understand why and shift your attitude about sales.
Debi: Episode number 54 of the Debi & Dr. Rob Show. Do you pitch like a girl? If you do that actually may be a good thing. This is my favorite topic it’s about sales and the power of women in business and how they hold secret gifts that help them become more successful.
Debi: Episode number 54, Rob.
Dr. Rob: All right.
Debi: Do you pitch like a girl?
Dr. Rob: I don’t think so, but [chuckles] let’s talk about this. We’ve been doing a lot of interviews with people, and they all mention that we’ve created a great business, and no doubt about that, but from the inside, I certainly know that we owe that success to you and your abilities in business and as an entrepreneur.
We know that, in general, all businesses require great salespeople. I’ve seen you do sales for years now. I know you’re one of the best salesperson I’ve ever seen because you do it with style and with grace, and in a non-pushy salesy way. I thought I would interview you, or at least ask you a few questions on that so that our audience could get the benefit of your knowledge if that’s okay with you.
Debi: That’s fine. That’s why we’re here.
Dr. Rob: Tell us a little bit about- how did you develop this business savvy, and then we’ll talk about the sales part a little bit?
Debi: Well, first of all, business is sales. Everything you do in business if you’re an entrepreneur, you’re a salesperson. You have to embrace that. You have to sell. You work with a team. You have to hire a team, so you have to know how to sell working for you. You have to work with contractors, and with business partners, and network with people, and get people excited to do partnerships with you and, of course, get clients and customers. You’re always doing sales.
One of the things I learned over the years– I worked in a lot of different Internet Marketing startups. One thing I noticed is, and most people can vouch for this, most women, is that a lot of the people in management positions are men. A lot of the people that are running companies are men. A lot of the ways they train you how to do sales are from a male perspective. When I even started my own business as a hypnotherapist and becoming an entrepreneur, I noticed a lot of the internet marketing was driven and sales training was by men. I always felt that there was something off about it. I was like yes, I could see the structure here, but that’s not me.
I hear women say that all the time, like, oh my God, stay on the phone until someone hangs up on you that are pushy or call them back a million times and be really aggressive. You have to go for it and you’ve got to talk over them, or I don’t know; all these tactics that I’ve heard that we’re very masculine-driven. even internet funnels and all these ways that we send e-mails out, I always felt that the way they approached it was very aggressive. Not even assertive, but more aggressive and less concerned about what the other person on the other end was thinking and more about their own, “How do I get that person to buy?”
Dr. Rob: I know. That reminds me of that movie, the Wall Street, yes. What is the difference here, then, let’s say a feminine approach to sales?
Debi: Well, there are certain things that women are naturally good at. I love the title pitch like a girl. That was actually your title, because it seems like a negative, but actually think, if you embrace your femininity and your women sense, that you can really do very well in your business and you have to start looking for male mentors to tell you how things should be done. You know it because intuitively, you’re thinking like I did, “This is not totally right. It doesn’t feel right to me.” You’re on target there. It’s not because you’re afraid to put yourself out there. A lot of times it just doesn’t feel right.
Women are natural salespeople. When you go into a restroom, you don’t talk to the guys next to you about your hair or your jeans or your girlfriend that’s sitting out there. You are facing that wall and you’re doing your business and you’re out of there. No talking. Women go into a restroom and they are like, “Oh my God, that’s a great lipstick.” “Oh, I got it from this seller,” and you’re selling the products that you’re using.
You notice a lot of the influencers on Instagram are all women and talking about how to use certain products, and what clothes they should wear, and style. We’re so good at connecting and sharing. The first lesson in sales is to connect and share, to make that a big part of your business is I want to connect with you, I want to really personally talk to you. I’m not trying to push something over on you. I’m excited about something that I want to share, but it’s not about trying to manipulate. We naturally have this ability to connect and share. We’re really good at that.
Dr. Rob: Yes. That reminds me of the research on the differences in the brains of men and women. There is some research that shows women’s brains are wired a little bit differently. You are more social, you use more language, you can process in different ways. What do they call that? Juggling.
Debi: [chuckles] We can multitask.
Dr. Rob: Multitask, that’s it.
Debi: Yes, actually just before you were talking, and I was thinking at the same time, and I heard everything you said. It was like I had two brains going on. Yes. If you think about early in life, I think biologically, we evolved that way because when the men went out to hunt, they couldn’t be like, “Oh my God, and then the hut was felt and there was a storm.” It was like, “Be quiet. You’re going to scare the animals away.”
Dr. Rob: We were good at exaggerating how big a buffalo was.
Debi: Yes, but it was all about being quiet and action and going killing the beast in a quiet way, where the women got together and they shared information. They are the ones who developed farming. We would all be still hunting beasts if it wasn’t for women. We have this creative ability.
We learned to be social, and we’re mothers, and we have the children and we share information. Think about, first of all, what you’re doing is you’re sharing information, you’re connecting, and you’re making- you’re helping someone solve a problem. The second thing that women are good at which men are not good at sometimes- I don’t want to say men versus women, but listening.
Dr. Rob: What did you say?
Debi: [laughs] We do, and I’m bad at this too. Sometimes you’ll be talking and I’ll totally block you out and you’ll say, “I live alone,” but no, women generally are good at listening to each other. We’ll talk about our feelings, and we’ll listen to our friends, talk about the ex for the 50th time, where a guy tends to just shut it out.
I think that a lot of times, male salespeople- and I don’t want to make it a gender issue, but the way I was– we didn’t really get taught it from the male perspective in a lot of the trainings I’ve taken, was about listening, the power of listening to the client, seeing what they need instead of shoving it down their throat, like convincing them that they need something.
A really great tool for listening in business is on a sales call, you’re listening to if you can solve this problem for that person, are they in the right place? You’re listening to what they really want. You’re also, if you’re really good business person, you’re listening to your customer service feedback. You’re listening to social media, how people react. Listening is something that we do really well.
Dr. Rob: Yes. I guess this goes for not just for sales, but for marketing in general.
Debi: Yes, like customer service, and feedback from your brand, and what people are hearing.
Dr. Rob: Yes, absolutely. What about the emotions? I know the stereotype where it is that women are more emotional and guys are more, say, power-driven or something like that, or more intellectual.
Debi: Yes, the research shows that men are very action-oriented and women are more empathy-oriented. We really care more about how we’re going to make other people feel than men do. Just in general, I think that’s just we’re built like he said, our brains are built that way. Again, I’m not saying that all women and all men are this way, but what I’ve noticed in my career and what I’ve coached many women is that we do really care about how the other person feels.
What I noticed is just in the coaching industry, that a lot of the salespeople they didn’t care about what the other person on the line felt. All they cared about was making that sale. It was all about going for like fighting the beast ,killing the beast; didn’t care about the animal, where women, I think, we pick up in a way, it can be inhibit us because we do feel too much that sometimes we’re afraid to ask for money, or we’re afraid to say how much our pricing is, or afraid that what they’re going to think about us. In general, we want to embrace that part of us because we are naturally empathetic.
Dr. Rob: That would be determined on whether you’re in a corporate job which is male-dominated sometimes, or offices that are mainly men, or you’re an entrepreneur doing your stuff on your own. Can you use those qualities in a corporate setting?
Debi: Absolutely. Here’s the thing, that no matter where you are, the people above you in the people below you, they have feelings. They have personal life. I think a lot, of times people forget that we’re human beings. We’re not just a VP of marketing or Joe Blow in customer service. We have lives and personal feelings and emotions, and that we have insecurities all of us and social anxieties. For a woman to be aware of that would probably be more diplomatic in the way she explains something than someone who’s not.
Again, it’s a spectrum to understand that empathy but not let it run you where it’s getting in the way. That’s where I find that, I said that women care how people feel and men care about closing the deal. [laughs]
Dr. Rob: The bottom line.
Debi: The bottom line. It’s not that you disregard one or the other, but you make the same goal, because you want to close the deal with someone who’s going to feel good about that deal. I think, for women, when we’re on a sales call especially, or we’re dealing with a partnership and negotiating, it’s about really paying attention to that intuition of our own feelings, what’s going on, and understanding ourselves enough to know what’s fear and what’s intuition.
I think all of that, women are more in touch with ourselves that way, and examine ourselves more. I think men, in general, are more about taking action to try real harder, where a woman is always a little more self-reflective.
Dr. Rob: Yes. I know you’re writing for Inc. Magazine now. How is that going? Are they receptive to your ideas?
Debi: They hate them. I’m just kidding. No, they’re really getting- they’re taking attraction. It’s interesting writing for a corporate– They’re not corporate, but more entrepreneurial very businessy, corporatey– [crosstalk].
Dr. Rob: Yes, corporate.
Debi: Corporate. It’s almost like having to water down a little bit, or reframing some of our deeper concepts, but it’s nice to share these things. I really wanted to have this interview with you because I feel that women sometimes feel that who they are and all the emotional parts of themselves, and just socially like where we have been we get paid 80% of what men get paid generally, and I’m sure that as an entrepreneur we charge 80% less than men charge, and we are caring about sharing with each other than not competing with each other.
Sometimes we feel that we have to be like a man in order to succeed because there are so many men in power. There are so many men that are leaders in the internet marketing field that we think we have to do what they say, and that’s the way it is and this is what works.
Dr. Rob: That’s the way it’s got to be.
Debi: I want to invite women out there to question everything that they know. When you get advice or you learn something that feels off, you’ll just know it. It just doesn’t feel right to trust that.
Of course, there are so again, those things that people don’t want to do like pick up the phone and call someone, cold calling or those type of things, and there’s more of an ego or fear, but just remember that there is a creative way to do things that maybe have not been discovered yet. Be brave enough to not just follow a formula and to be brave to create your own.
One of the fun things that I love about being an independent entrepreneur is that you get to decide it for yourself how things should be. You get to decide how your company should be run and really think of it more creatively. There is always another way to do it.
Now, one of the things that brings to minus our mothers. Back in the ’50s ,’60s our mothers, my mothers grew up in that time, your mother in the ’50s ’60s. Your father would come home with the money and she would find a way to stretch that money, and she would take raw materials of different ingredients and create a beautiful meal. She would find solutions to household problems like how do I get the windows to clean. My mother has so many ideas and that’s from women sharing with each other, women being creative.
We need to bring that into the business world now. We have to own that power of creativity that we have, and not believe the powers that be are that the way to go.
Dr. Rob: Yes, and there’s so many women entering entrepreneurship now and creating businesses and creating new ideas and new solutions to old problems. It’s really exciting time. What advice would you have for people that are at the cusp of taking a big first step towards entrepreneurship?
Debi: I’d say number one is get a coach. If I didn’t have a coach from the very beginning, I’d still be going in circles trying to figure out what the heck I was doing. Your ego is used to being in the status quo. It will make so many excuses for why you can’t do what you need to do. You could read books, and you could take online courses.
I know a lot of people that do that. They take these online courses which are very cookie-cutter generic ways of doing a business, and how to get clients, and how to make money. It lacks that creativity. It may be their system that may have worked for them, but it may not apply to your business. You need a coach to really help you give you your own individual expression of your business, and you’re not going to be a cookie-cutter pattern or copy of everyone else. You are going to be your own self.
A lot of what happens when we first start a business is not that we don’t know the marketing or that we don’t know the steps to take to become successful. We know them. It’s just the psychological resistance that we experience gets us off track. You need a trained coach. I recommend a Jungian-trained coach because you want to go and get to the root of what’s going on. Not just think positive and not just take action, but someone who can bring out your best and your creativity so that you can express yourself and the natural.
Especially women, you have a natural ability to be creative and tap into that. Don’t be afraid to feel on sales calls. Don’t be afraid to be emotional when you do videos or when you write copy. You want to use all those things that make you so wonderful as a woman, and use it to your advantage.
What I see in the future is that men are going to start taking classes from women, because we know what the heck to do. When I was at that Inc. Women’s Summit last year, the guy from Shark Tank, he said, “Every time I invest in a woman entrepreneur, I always get a return on investment; always, always, always more than men.”
I want you women out there to know you have so much power. First of all, you have the power of the consumer power of purchasing. You have such a big power, you drive a lot of purchases, but now it’s time for us to drive the business world in a new way, to make it a friendlier, more empathetic, more collaborative, and more abundance a place for all of us to live where we’re not just reaping the resources of the world and not caring about the environment; that we’re really being a holistic solution, helping each other lift each other up. That’s what we’re really great at.
Dr. Rob: Nice. Well, I certainly know if it helps the bottom line, men will be interested in hearing. Do I have to get in touch with my feelings?
Debi: It’s interesting, I hear all the time that these people brag about, “I had $100,000 launch. I made $100,000, but I spent $200,000 on ads to get that my money.” A woman would take that same thing probably, spend 20,000 on ads and make the same amount of money because she’s more creative. She’s going to understand on a deeper way.
It’s not just a spray and pray and just a book volume- get more volume and make more money. It’s how do I get the right people? How do I help people and truly feel good about it? How does both parties feel great in that sales conversation where they both feel like they won? Versus so much trying to conquer the other person and get that deal.
Dr. Rob: Nice.
Debi: Remember, women know how to feel. They care about what people feel. Guys just worry about closing the deal. I know I’m generalizing here. I’m going to get a lot of hate mail from this. We’re just saying in jest, in general, that’s just how the business world has been.
Dr. Rob: Absolutely. I think it’s great advice. We need to talk more about this and share the wisdom that you have with our listeners and followers. If you have any questions, any specific things that you want us to talk about on our podcast, feel free to write in the comments there a question. and we’ll definitely take it into consideration.
Debi: If you have a female business coach, check to see where she got her content from because most of the time, it’s just a guy- she’s just copying what a guy taught her. I’m fortunate to have a business coach that is the forefront of female entrepreneurs in the industry for the past 20 years. I know that her stuff is her stuff and she’s the real deal. Make sure you’re getting a woman’s process along with a woman coach. That’s going to help you become more successful as a woman and you’re going to feel good about it.
Dr. Rob: Good advice.
Debi: Take care, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us for the Creative Love Radio podcast. Don’t forget to subscribe to us on iTunes or Google Play and we’re at Spotify now. If you’re interested in learning more about leadership, women’s empowerment, we do have our Evolve leadership program that is a 12-month program.
You can be in our group program, or you can be in the upper-level guru level program where you can coach with me privately. I have a few spots available for that. It’s a year-long mastermind with powerful creative women changing the rules in business and stepping into our power to really create something wonderful in our lives both personally and professionally.
Dr. Rob: Nice. See you next time.
Debi: Take care.
Dr. Rob: Much love.
Debi: Bye-bye. Thank you for joining us for the Debi & Dr. Rob Show. Please don’t forget to subscribe to us on iTunes and leave us a review. We’d love to hear what you think about the show. Stay tuned to join us for our next episode. Also, visit us on our website at www.debiandrob.com. We’ll see you next time.[music]
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